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Traditional partner market

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Main PageMate choice behavior → Traditional partner market

The traditional partner market as it works in 2022.

In many regions of the world there are strong family ties and regulated partner markets. This tends to occur in rural places rather than in cities, and in third world countries rather than in industrialized countries. Depending on the country, incels can come into contact with the traditional partner market. This can happen with mail-order brides[tiw], SEAmaxxing[tiw], or wooing a highly religious Western woman.

Nevertheless, simply following the rules of the traditional partner market can be just as unsuccessful for incels as attempts at succeeding in the free partner market.

Comparison between traditional and free partner market

Traditional partner market:

  • Future life partners are selected and introduced to each other by third parties. That is also called warm meeting.
  • The meetings take place with the openly stated intention of getting married.
  • Third parties (mostly family members) talk to each other and check for compatibility.
  • Getting to know each other takes place in the presence of third parties (often the woman's companion).
  • Getting to know each other and joint actions are often pre-structured and regulated by unwritten laws.
  • The man must not be a poorcel[tiw] and be financially secure.
  • Third parties (mostly family members) give permission to marry.
  • At least officially, sex doesn't take place until after marriage.

Free partner market:

  • The participants look for their potential partners themselves and introduce themselves to each other.
  • When you meet a potential partner you must not state sexual of even friendship intents
  • Only the two involved participants talk to each other and check for compatibility.
  • Getting to know each other takes place without the presence of third parties. That is, it is mostly cold meetings.
  • Getting to know each other and common actions seem to take place spontaneously, require a lot of improvisational talent and involve targeted violations of unwritten laws.
  • The man must appear dominant and confident.
  • Only the two involved decide whether a love relationship[tiw] begins or not.
  • Sex takes place before a committed relationship begins, typically after less than five meetings.

Market mixup causes issues

Mixing the traditional and free market partner markets be complicated or create other issues. Which partner market prevails is not immediately apparent:

  • There are countries in which traditional rules for finding partners are emphasized, but in practice the rules of the free partner market apply. The traditional rules are just a facade.
  • Sometimes the partner seekers follow the rules of the free partner market, while the parents make the traditional demands.
  • There are countries in which there is suspiciously frequent talk of freedom, but actual sexual freedom does not exist
  • Mating is complex and varied, e.g. Potential partners are introduced to each other with the aim of finding a partner, but getting to know each other is left to the two partner seekers. Or getting to know each other is structured, but the decision is left to the two of them.

Even in countries where both partner markets coexist, following the rules of the "wrong" market can cause trouble:

  • Anyone who behaves conservatively and cautiously on the free partner market ends up incel.
  • Anyone who constantly complains about the rules of the free or the traditional partner market will be badly rejected and immediately have a bad reputation.

The meeting of supporters from different partner markets leads to exploitation and anger.

  • In the traditional partner market, the man usually bears the costs for joint ventures. Some women (followers of the free partner market) take advantage of this to enrich themselves without intentionally entering into a relationship or friendship with the men. In the US they are sometimes called "gold diggers". This can continue well into a relationship. In traditional societies, women also used to feign love and in order to break up and sue the man for not marrying.
  • In the traditional partner markets, men and women ideally only have sex after they get married, in practice often shortly before. Some men (supporters of the free partner market) have sex with traditional women. The women then want to marry the men, but the men do not want to.

Different aspects of the traditional partner market

Although the path of the traditional partner market for incels seems clear and promising, it often does not work for a variety of reasons. Many rules of conduct from the traditional partner market are in stark contrast to the free partner market. While they might work in the traditional market, they would cause complete failure in the free market.

The following quotes about the traditional partner market in Thailand serve as a stimulus for discussion. Here is an example:

  • "The first rendezvous with a Thai woman", Wolfgang Payer from thaifrau.org.[1] The representation is a bit out of date, however.

Various failures of traditional dating today

Tradcons usually have a lack of genuine interest in foreign countries

The supporters of the traditional partner market are often very conservative overall and are more behind their culture. They are therefore less (seriously) interested in foreign countries and are less able and less willing to get involved with foreigners.

However, if almost all people participate in the traditional partner market, then you may also find the more open and interesting ones there.

Tradcons don't question their values and this causes them dating issues

The supporters of the traditional partner market, or more generally, traditional cultures, religions, and political ideologies, do not question their values.

Examples of unquestioned values:

  • The words of the respective guru (such as Jordan Peterson) or prophet (such as Paul or Mohammed) and their interpretation of them.
  • Dogmas such as the Christian Virgin Birth, the functioning of the market, etc.
  • Respective scapgoats (communists, SJWs, foreigners, anti-patriarchs, people who do not wear the right branded clothes, etc.)
  • That learning shouldn't be fun.
  • That one must not address potential conflicts and must communicate indirectly.
  • That the local superior (parents, supervisors) is to be always obeyed.
  • That the dissatisfaction of inferiors must not be talked about and it must be accepted.

Such values often conflict with modern women, and even women in other traditional countries they meet to escape their own country. Tradcons react:

  • with ignoring, perhaps because they are not even aware of their own unwritten laws.
  • Being aggressive, because they already see questioning as a criticism and attack on their authority.
  • With broken contact

Instead of respecting modern values, tradcons expect love-interests such as mail-order brides to have the same tradcon values, until everything falls apart.

Tradcons have a lack of tolerance, and this causes them dating issues

When people talk to each other, there is disagreement and misunderstanding. Wherever people from different cultures meet, there are even more of them. People can only get along if they solve these problems together.

The supporters of the traditional partner market are often as little fault-tolerant as the participants in the free partner market, where the process of getting to know each other is irrevocably terminated after a killer criterion has occurred. The reasons are almost never given to the alleged culprit. The misstep can be a "wrong" policy that the man has advocated, and which makes perfect sense in his home country because the living conditions there are different from those in the woman's country. It can be a simple misunderstanding. A clarification and the (re) finding of a common consensus is almost always prevented by breaking contact.

But precisely because of their different origins, a constant and intensive exchange is essential for a binational relationship. Anyone who escapes the clarification of conflicts by breaking off contact has already exposed themselves as incapable of a binational relationship.

How do locals get along with one another according to such unwritten rules without constantly talking openly with each other? It only works if everyone has been taught the local rules from an early age. That is more of a frightening sign of conformity than of a liberal society that is also open to foreigners.

Tradcon dating is just as shallow as free market dating

Even on dates with traditional women, questions about life planning, income, values, etc. are not asked of each other and checked for a fit. Such "factual questions" may be mentioned, but only discussed later with the parents. As described above, moral concepts are often not mentioned at all.

Instead, the meeting usually runs like in the free partner market: by having dinner together, going to the zoo, going to the cinema etc. and talking about "God and the world". Despite the rules of the traditional partner market, women are very likely to expect casual, spontaneous communication, jokes and the typical flirtation from men. You expect the man to act as a solo entertainer and remain more passive yourself.

It is quite possible that they want to be addressed emotionally by basic "biological" characteristics, for example dominance, self-confidence and spontaneity, which incels often have difficulties with.

The role of the third party in traditional dating

In the traditional partner market, third parties often come into play very early to:

  • Introduce the potential partners to each other,
  • To judge character or
  • Act as a chaperon to prevent sexual contact.

How tradcons can successfully use intermediaries in dating

A mediator can be your friend, the woman's friend, a mutual friend of the two of you, or just a casual acquaintance of the two of you.

If the mediator is not friends with both the man and the woman in tradcon dating, the following problems can arise:

  • The partners do not match at all because the intermediary does not know the parties well enough.
  • One of the partner seekers can misbehave and does not have to fear sanctions from their mutual circle of friends. (Appointments and no-shows, leaving the partner at the expense, etc.)
  • One of the partner seekers can run away without giving a reason.

Such conflicts can turn into pretty heated arguments!

Only if both partner seekers are good friends with the agent:

  • The mediator can make a meaningful assessment of whether both would fit together.
  • There is social pressure to behave properly.
  • There is a chance of feedback as to why it may not have worked.

Chaperone

Some women bring a friend on a date. Possible reasons for this include:

  • To hear her friends opinion of the man.
  • To make sexual approaches more difficult for the man.
  • To protect her from danger from the man.

A chaperon can also appear when traveling together.

If a woman does not come alone, this is more of an alarm signal on the free partner market:

  • Maybe the woman doesn't want to have sex.
  • Or maybe she isn't interested in a relationship at all. Maybe she wants to "just take a look" or be entertained.
  • In the PUA community, men work to separate the woman from their group and meet her alone in order to escalate further. Third parties interfering is interpreted as cockblocking.

How tradcons can effectively deal with a dating chaperone

  • If necessary, ask when making an appointment whether the woman is bringing accompanying persons. If so, ask for a reason.
  • If the woman brings unannounced accompaniment who should then also be fed, do not accept it without questioning, but ask for a reason. Some men break off contact here on their own because they consider failure to be very likely.
  • Insist on unaccompanied meetings at follow-up meetings, because physical approach is part of it.

The reason why she would like accompaniment, together with the framework conditions, can provide information about your personality and values:

  • She protects herself from supposed dangers, even though the date takes place in a safe place cafe. Then she's so insecure that she's likely to screw up the date anyway.
  • She identifies with social norms. Serious indication of pre-marriage rejection of sex and perhaps a sign of sexual hostility or supply prostitution.
  • She is dependent and only does what her family tells her to do.
  • She herself is not conservative, but her social circle knows from the meeting or she could be seen by acquaintances. She just evades social pressure.
  • She is just curious and hopes that her company will give her an independent impression of the man.

Alternatives:

  • Conversely, would the woman also be in agreement with the man accompanying the man who would help him assess the woman? Then it would be a meeting for four and one-on-one discussions would not always exclude one.
  • How about a "double date" where 2 men get to know 2 women at the same time?

See "Religion and Sex" below!

Third party judgment

Third party assessment has potential benefits. According to publications by the Seduction Community, men are judged by women on the free partner market according to how much men can emotionally stimulate and attract women.

Different criteria apply in the traditional partner market:

  • personal qualities like being a "good person" and being a reliable friend and partner.
  • very important: financial security, even in rich countries. (see below)

Many incels can meet both requirements more easily than moving a woman emotionally. Such a closed marriage would be a "marriage of convenience". However, it does not rule out that both of them learn to love each other over time.

Potential Benefits of Third Party Assessment:

  • Mutual friends can help to bring these aspects to the fore.

Disadvantage:

  • The third person may be very conservative and reject the man while the woman herself sees similarities with the man.

Economic aspects

In the traditional partner market in particular, men looking for a partner are required to have money. Stated reasons for this include:

  • Financial security for the daughter
  • Reimbursement of costs in restaurants
  • Assumption of costs while getting to know each other

Tradcon parents' expectations of men

Traditionally attuned parents of the woman have the following sometimes unspoken expectations:

  • A foreigner who has fallen in love with a Thai woman, for example, has to marry her from the Thai perspective.
  • Visiting the parents too early can have corresponding consequences, as it is already understood as an engagement request.
  • Parents expect a financially secure son-in-law, even if they live in a rich country.
  • However, they only allow marriage if the man has successfully completed his vocational training and has found an acceptable job.

When all of this is given, parents usually do not stand in the way of their daughter's relationship (even with foreigners).

Parents' concerns about foreigners in general are not so common as they would hinder the partner search. Sometimes parents have better expectations of foreign men than of their own country.

How traditional dinners work

When a man first meets the traditional woman's family, it often takes place in a restaurant. Sometimes the man is expected to pay the costs. If the man and woman are already a steady couple and an engagement is planned, then that's fine. If the two are not yet committed, then it is problematic because meetings with parents can easily be interpreted as an unspoken engagement to marriage.

On the free partner market, invitations to dinner, gifts and other services are unfavorable before any commitment and sexual contact. The supporters of the PUA community, for example, almost always advise against being too eager to pay for dinners. This is because:

  • The man would appear needy.
  • The woman is tempted to take advantage of the man.
  • The man would look unattractive because he can't keep his money with him. (Women in the traditional partner market who value financial security should keep this in mind.)
  • Women who want to be served financially by men immediately (drinks, gifts, etc.) are often only out for financial gain and exploitation of the man in order to be able to spend an inexpensive evening.

So here too I fear that the woman will gladly allow herself and the whole family to be entertained princely without accepting any obligation in return, even Dating advice communities instead recommend that the man should pay for the woman only lightly, and only if she has earned through trust, commitment, sex, etc.

Fraud vs traditional woman

Sometimes traditional women ask for gifts and the assumption of all costs while getting to know the man. Some will ask for:

  • Telephone costs,
  • Gifts, like watches, phones and handbags
  • Travel expenses for joint excursions and
  • Frequent extravagant food

However, these are not characteristics of the traditional partner market but gold digging and signs of direct prostitution.

How religion informs traditional dating

A person's religion and religiosity determine which values ​​they are guided by, who they fit in and how they deal with sexuality.

The following pointers can be found about the role of a person's religion and belief system:

  • Members of religious minorities are often strictly religious. Example: Catholics in Japan.
  • Members of religious majorities tend not to be strictly religious, difficult to predict. Example: Catholics in Korea or Brazil.
  • There are countries in which the great world religions are common, but do not represent the belief system. Example: Buddhism is widespread in China and Japan. The dominant philosophy, which offers more or less instructions for all situations in life, is Confucianism.

Very religious people are usually (depending on their religion) hostile to sex and are more likely to fit in with other people of the same faith.

According to a study by OkCupid[2], religious people have fewer matching partners than atheists and agnostics. Paradoxically, they are even less suitable for their own co-religionists than atheists for each other.

Planned parenthood in traditional societies

The rejection of premarital sex in traditional societies may be justified by the need for the man to take care of the woman and any children. In many countries this requirement has been eliminated for several reasons:

  • Contraceptives are generally available,
  • Abortion is possible and depending on the country
  • Thanks to equality women can also earn money.
  • Material reasons for chastity before marriage are largely omitted depending on the country. The rejection of premarital sex could more likely be due to cultivated sexual hostility.

Dealing with Sex Before Marriage

n many traditional societies and most major religions, sex is sanctioned before marriage. This does not mean that all people obey them, but that some of them more or less circumvent these prohibitions.

The following examples from the USA show how such bans are dealt with:

  • There is said to be research showing that the number of teenage pregnancies in restrictive subcultures in the United States is higher than in places where there is more permissiveness and sex education.
  • There are movements like True Love Waits that reject premarital sex. But some "followers" redefine sex as "only intercourse". They then only do without sex according to their definition and do everything else that is fun.
  • The vast majority of people who refuse premarital sex have had sex after all. Some prominent women followers were exposed as liars.
  • There are postings in the Seduction Community that report very good sex with church-related women in the USA.

Please refer:

  • Study Finds That Teenage Virginity Pledges Are Rarely Kept, New York Times, March 10, 2004. "88 percent of those who pledged chastity reported having had sexual intercourse before they married".

So sex is a basic need, which cannot be prevented by prohibitions. So that means some people:

  • refrain from premarital sex.
  • They even refrain from having sex in marriage because they consider it dirty and indecent.
  • still have sex, but with a guilty conscience.
  • have sex without contraception, probably because they are too scared and too little information to get birth control.
  • still have sex with a clear conscience.
  • redefine sex as you see fit.
  • maintain an asexual facade to the point of lying.

The likelihood that this doesn't just apply to the US is great. ABs should not follow such bans on the traditional partner market without questioning. Otherwise, they run the risk of being more papal than the Pope himself. On the other hand, there are countries full of religious fanatics that are probably better avoided anyway. They can be recognized by the fact that local men stare after undisguised foreign women, because otherwise they would never experience this sight, or women have to wear a mask.

In view of the duplicity (personal attitude versus public opinion), when it comes to physical contact or sex, you always have to check which opinion the woman is expressing:

  • your personal opinion when no other people are present or you are in an anonymous place,
  • public opinion, if their acquaintances are there or they could be seen by them,
  • or whether their public opinion and their own attitudes match.

Sexuality is too important to only get to know your partner in this regard after the engagement. If the partner absolutely wants or has to forego sex before marriage, then she should at least show in some way that she would like to have sex, e.g. by:

  • Creation of opportunities where there is only two and
  • "everything" except intercourse.

Sex as necessary evil in traditional religion

Some traditionally minded women find it completely natural to be served materially. Presumably, they consider love and sex as consideration in return. Of course, only after the marriage, if that happens at all. The expectations of invitations and reimbursement described above could be an indication of this attitude.

Does such a woman see sex as a necessary evil or does she enjoy it? Seeing sex as a necessary evil is common in many religions such as Catholicism. Sex is something that men and women alike can enjoy and give to one another.

Anyway, traditional marriages often fall down into outright prostitution, with the man working and the woman spending the money on cosmetics and other hobbies without contributing to the couple's upkeep.

Physical contact in public

In traditional dating, avoiding touch in public is not a sign of rejection of sex. If a woman is sexually permissive, she will show this herself in the absence of third parties after building trust or at least gladly comply with the man's requests.

In many countries, physical contact or more in public and in the presence of acquaintances is actually unusual and would be unpleasant.

Time to first sex

In the traditional partner market, the first sex ideally takes place on the wedding night. In practice, sex may be tolerated after engagement. And all rules involving sex may be completely be ignored, by "traditional daters".

In the free partner market, the first sex takes place after 1 week to a month, after about 2 to 5 meetings. The pick-up-artists named, "Mystery", says that sex occurs after 4 to 10 hours of pure encounter time. If it takes longer, it's more of a sign that something has gone wrong, is not moving forward, and there will never be sex or a relationship.

If the waiting time for sex is too long, there is another risk, that of being exploited by a gold digger. That is, a fraudster who wants to postpone the introductory phase as long as possible in order to live on the money transferred.

Advantages and disadvantages of the traditional partner market

The traditional partner market offers the following advantages:

  • Any positive assessment by third parties (partnervs parents, mutual friends). Assessment not as a sex partner and dream man but as a friend and life partner.
  • Impersonal framework conditions such as required financial security (especially compared to residents of the Third World) are easier to meet, at least for ABs in university or professional life, than personal characteristics such as dominance and self-confidence.
  • Pre-structured behavior instead of improvisation and spontaneity. Approves ABs with her rather reserved character.
  • It is clear that it is about finding a partner. You don't automatically appear needy because you're looking. The facade, you are not looking at all, does not have to be maintained.
  • Less (or just different?) risk of exploitation.
  • Less expectation for self-expression and initiation of sex. Come to meet ABs.

And disadvantages:

  • Lack of fault tolerance and inability to communicate.
  • Lack of interest in foreign countries, foreigners, other values ​​and other cultures.
  • Rules of the free partner market may apply after all. (Expectation of self-expression, spontaneity, humor, small crossing of boundaries)
  • High financial costs for the man without any obligation from the woman.
  • Sexophobia and the risk of supply prostitution.

Discussion

At first glance, it looks as if an incel would do better in the traditional partner market than in the open market. If you look at the pitfalls of the traditional market, many reasons come to the fore, which again and again make the search for a partner fail.

The potentially suitable cosmopolitan partners live more in the city than in the country and are more likely to be found on the free partner market. N employee cannot avoid the free partner market, and they can look for their partner on the free market first: in the circle of acquaintances where foreigners and locals meet, or in discos, foreigners' bars, etc. which is problematic with the traditional partner market. Although there are rules that are very difficult to learn on the free partner market, an incel still has better chances there than in their home country than in a traditional foreign country for many reasons, not least of which is avoiding extreme fraud.

Incels can be successful in traditionally centered dating, but there aren't many success stories. If practically everyone in a country actually follows the traditional rules, then perhaps traditional dating can work. And when a mutual friend introduces someone, there is at least a real possibility that it will work.

Summary of all the above

  • You can learn how to flirt well by using the free partner market rather than the traditional partner market
  • You need to be deeply familiar with the respective rules for whatever traditional partner market you want to join
  • You will end up lonely if the woman shows up with company, unless you bring your own friend to accompany you.
  • Being exploited financially is actually more common in the traditional partner market. Requests for gifts and dinner invitations are often scams.
  • Traditional dating requires a lack of sexual contact in the presence of others
  • Asexual women also take advantage of the traditional partner market, and they will also take the form of scammers.
  • Conservative parents want you to be conservative and cautious
  • When someone tries to mediate your traditional date, it will only work well when both parties are good friends with the mediator

References

See also

Weblinks


This article based on an article Traditional partner market (September 30, 2022) from the free Encyklopedia The Incel Wiki. The The Incel Wiki article is published under an unknown license. In The Incel Wiki is a List of Authors available those who worked on the text before being incorporated in WikiMANNia.